FOS PROJECT

Had this idea listening to my new tune FOS, i did for the forum.
Why dont we do some music together?

Heres (MY) idea on it...
(1)What if Peter works up a bed-track, and then works with Steve getting him on it. (2)Then Z could do some Bass&Guitars.
(3) Then i could do some Guitar and vocals.
(4)Then Z and I could send Peter just our parts, and he could mix and edit them into the track.

I think Z would be the best writer of the lyrics. I could sing them and have Z do backup vocals to my vocal track.

Peter would be the one to mix and master all this how he thinks is best for the music.

What do you guys think?

I think if we worked as a team, uesing each persons strong points, we could do some awesome music.

Just an idea.
Your thoughts (all)......
DACE>

AND..if this works out, and we all like it, We could have other FOS members join in on future tunes...Like Rick, Jim, Ect......

FOS is a GREAT name i feel....It just sounds cool to me, and stands for this forum and its heart.

Its up to you guys. IM IN like flint..

Think it over. ALL the great bands of the past were made up of very different artist. THAT we have. And we have the love of music. We could take TONS of time on this to get it PERFECT!

DACE>

DACE..........

I love the idea and the name too. The same idea has in fact crossed my mind on more than one occassion lately.

So you can count me in but there are things that would need to be planned out and looked at in advance.

Most importantly is the method of adding and mixing the parts which is not quite so easy to do.

When people do a normal collab.....and please correct me if I'm wrong.....somebody starts the track and then passes it on for the other person to add their part. It is then passed on again for another part to be added and continues until the final part is put on.
In effect each person adding their part is doing their own mixing and it cannot be changed.

Mastering is a different process and is applied to the finished track so that is no problem for me.

What I am saying is that you cannot seperate parts and try to join them up again as it is nearly impossible to get the timing and synchronisation right.

It can be done if everybody were using the same program and the song parts could be sent as one song to be loaded up but none of us work like that and z has a Mac so thats not practical.

At the moment I see two possible solutions but they are really both a compromise.

Firstly we could just do it as a collab with each person adding their part and making sure that they get their part mixed in correctly so that other parts already recorded still sit well in the mix. Its not going to give you the best results but at least you can get a track done that way as has been done many times before.

The second way is more difficult but may be more experimental and possibly more rewarding

Let me give you a scenario......

Firstly a bit of forward planning is neccessary......nothing too complex....we aim to improvise as much as we can.
So let z write some lyrics and tell me what bpm to use and how long is the song and whether it is mellow in style or going to be hard rock......some this may be guesswork.

I can then write a drum track and send it to z.

z does a bass track and sends me back the track of bass and drums and a second track of just the bass part. I can then mix the bass part in and send to Steve.

Steve adds his part and sends back to me again the complete track and a second track with just his part on it. I then mix that down and send it to DACE.

DACE then adds his parts and he sends me back the completed track plus a track containing just the guitar parts and another track just containing the vocals as we need to keep these seperate.

WHY......you may well ask what difference will all this make....so I will explain.

Each time I send you a completed track for you to add your parts it is not going to be the final track......just a guide.
By sending back to me those individual tracks I will be building a song in my equipment comprised of individual parts that I have control over.

When we have got all the parts I can then look at it and mix it down properly getting it all to sit in the mix and balance out all the levels and enhance it.
I can also use creative mixing fading parts in and out where they fit better so if you send me something played from start to end I can bring pieces in and out if that fits better to create space.

When I have created a final mix I can then master it to give a real kick ass mix.

DACE....when you hear my Darkstarcruiser album you will see what I mean about the mastering and have a good listen to the drums too.....all programmed by myself.

This would be a long hard project and you may want to consider whether doing it the easy way would work well enough.Maybe that would be the best way to go for a first track to see how it comes out.
I have shown you the long way out of interest so that you can see what could be possible.

Lets see what you all think about this or whether anyone has any other ideas.

I'm in whichever way you want to do it

Peter..I just did a fast read...i need to read it again later..BUT...What I have done before works great on just sending my part back and have the other person add it back in.
What i do is just record my part and i dont edit or cut it. then you just draw it in. It will in place itself as i did it Peter.

When i do my own stuff, i move parts around the time line and it fits perfect to my ears. I just listen and look at the lines or markers.

But, yes, need to talk about how to do it. Sending whole track/mix in not a good idea.
We can ues the Soundcloud player for WAV DLing of our parts.

Anyway..ill spend more time read your thoughts later.
I just dont see any prob with the importing tracks into the mix..But i use ACID and its easy to do that with its prog-setup.

Maybe I should do the arranging/inserting of parts? its very easy for me. BUT im bad and mixing setting leveles... And i have the cheapest software, so not the best idea.

DACE>

"I can also use creative mixing fading parts in and out where they fit better so if you send me something played from start to end I can bring pieces in and out if that fits better to create space."

YES! I cant get people to do this..THIS is how it should be done. I agree with this 100%...I want to hear people take what i do and play with it, edit it, cut itin the tune to fit how THEY hear it best..Love this idea/way of building tunes.

DACE>

Hardway isbest. You need all the parts seperated to get a great tune.
I would rather spend the time and work to get somethig as great as we can.
Dont want an half ass work. Needs to be our VERY best.

We are getting ahead of the project because Z and Steve have not posted in if they wanted to do it. and there ideas if they do. SO, lets wait to see if there interested and then we can start talking and planing as a team.

They may not be interested. Ifs itsnot all of us, im not into it.
So, we will give them time to say yes or no.

DACE>

DACE wrote:Hardway isbest. You need all the parts seperated to get a great tune.
I would rather spend the time and work to get somethig as great as we can.
Dont want an half ass work. Needs to be our VERY best.

We are getting ahead of the project because Z and Steve have not posted in if they wanted to do it. and there ideas if they do. SO, lets wait to see if there interested and then we can start talking and planing as a team.

They may not be interested. Ifs itsnot all of us, im not into it.
So, we will give them time to say yes or no.

DACE>

DACE.....I agree we need Z and Steve on board and to get their input and if they cannot do it or are not interested then it won't work anyway.

But in the meantime I think I have solved the main problem.

You are using ACID so I checked my hard drive and found that I have ACID PRO v4 still on there and working. I opened it up ......its not something that I have used...to have a look and the answer came to me.

Now if you are happy arranging all the parts all you have to is to "Save As" and in the pull down box you can save the project as an acd-zip file.

What this does is to save the ACID file and all of the audio files with it into a special zip file.

You can send that file to me using Rapidshare or SENDIT if you want and once I have it I can extract all the seperate parts using my special MIDI equipment to keep sync. My ACID Pro version supports MTC (Midi Time Code) which is how I keep things in sync on my tracks using SONAR so I know exactly what to do (its complicated so don't ask but believe me I can do it OK)

Once I have them in my hard disk recorder then I can do the creative mixing and use effects if neccessary or compression and EQ to create a final mix. Then I can master it.

I checked out if the free version of ACID will save this type of file by downloading it and it will work.

So that would give us what we need in an easy solution. How cool is that?

It's just down to Z and Steve now to see what they want to do.

Wow! Sounds like a great idea Dace!
Not sure that I've got the musical skill to add something to a track made by you pro's though. Yeah, we did "Scan Again" Dace, but you did all the adding to my already made songs (Still love that track!!)

I'm more of a random key presser/knob tweaker sort of musician! If I get 5 minutes of usable stuff out of a day's recording I count my self lucky and call it a song! LOL
Still, there's no harm in having a go is there? I've got ACID express 7.0 which is a start!
Maybe if I supply a few minutes of noodling you or Peter could mix it in somewhere.

Great..Thanks Steve...We will get you in there no prob.
DACE>

OK..we hear from Z, and he is in, we can star talking and thinking of how to start.
Lets put some work into it, as team. Make it bigger than we are..

Waiting on Z to get it rolling.

DACE>

I'm in!


Uploading Everything Is Now right now..... then I will have some time.

I agree with Peter that it will be best if we don't mix until the end.

One way of doing that is to add your part and mix. But then send the mix AND just the individual track to the next guy.
Then the next guy plays along with the mix, but just sends his individual track along too...

Or something like that?
As long as we all keep our individual tracks, and they are the same length, someone can mix at the end (Peter?)


Z

Yes, Peter needs to do the mixing and mastering. Hes the best at that.

Z..you need to write me the lyrics, and do Bass, and a clean guitar part.
Then when i get my vocal done you need to backup sing with me, and add to my vocal take.

Peter needs to work with Steve on his part. helping him get in the mix right.

And Peter should do creative mixing of all the tracks as he mentioned.

Lyric wise i want you write along the lines of what we are about as people, artist, our outlook on music , life, friendship. Make them make since to what FOS is. Why we do it. And how we all feel about life and love and sharing. You know what i mean on that?
Try to write somthing that go's with what the project means. Dig deep into your heart looking for what all this means to us. (or try to)...I acspect alot from you on your lyric, so if i say Nope, try again, dont take it wrong. I want to push you to pull out of your heart something GREAT! Lyric wise...I might be hard on you, but its for the SONG! i want you go further than you ever have expressing your deepest feeling about what we are doing here. SO, DIG deep. think hard, pull from your heart, ask yourself things. Give me the most heartfelt words you have EVER done...TAKE your time, DIG inside bro. I putting ALOT on you, and apcect the same from us all. Lets impress ourselfs. Give it EVERTHING we have to give.
OK???

DACE>

I'm on it.

Who's doing percussion? Should I just lay the bass down on a simple beat and then the real percussion
will be done after?

I'll start with the lyrics / bass and let you know.

So we're calling it "Fortress Of Solitude"?

(I already have one called that, but it's not about music or us)

I will post some words here when I think of some....

Z

Been reading this and giving it some thought and this seems the best way if you all agree.

I think that all parts (Z and Steve) should go through DACE.

That way DACE can assemble the song in ACID using your parts. DACE has worked with both of you before so there should be no problem. A rough mix in ACID will be fine as I will be extracting each track/part anyway.

The important thing is that DACE saves the file as an acd-zip file which is an option in all the ACID programs .....even the free one.

This saves the work and most importantly all of the audio files used together in one zipped package.

As long as DACE does this then I can reload this file into ACID and then extract the individual tracks for mixing.

I will do the percussion on the final track but z can use a simple beat for the working file.

I will then replace z's simple beat with a rewritten drum track to fit the style.

Do you want me to do any synth parts ???? If I see any space in the final mix or see a way of adding something good would you like me to go ahead in the final creation?

Does this sound like a good plan?? DACE is this OK for you???

Well, First, Peter and Steve are the Synth, and Keys, guys, so they should do those.

I was thinking that it would be best for Peter to start the bed- track, Synth, drums, and work getting Steves part in that.

BPM matter little for me for vocal work peter. (Mid-tempo) 80 to 100 BPMs

I need to wake up and think on this some.

My Idea on members:

Peter-Synth-Drums-Arranging-production-mastering
Steve-Keys-Synth-artwork
Z-Lyrics-Bass-2nd guitar-2nd-vocal
Dace- Vocals-lead guitar

Name FOS....Not spelled out Z. (FOS)


BBL
DACE>

That sounds good. You mean pronounced Dace, like "FAHS"?
I agree we need some Synth from Peter in there for sure.

I'm thinking maybe something mid-tempo, somewhat space-rock oriented?
I could do a fairly simple bass line and clean chord picking under the verses, and
we could have a lot of synth breaks that lead guitar can float over?

Z

LOLOL...No, FOS, as it says.

I need to go see if i can figg out the Acid-flie-zip saving thing.

But im awiting on the service man right now. Be here in a few.

FOS ......Z, as you read it.

DACE>

DACE wrote:Well, First, Peter and Steve are the Synth, and Keys, guys, so they should do those.

I was thinking that it would be best for Peter to start the bed- track, Synth, drums, and work getting Steves part in that.

BPM matter little for me for vocal work peter. (Mid-tempo) 80 to 100 BPMs

I need to wake up and think on this some.

My Idea on members:

Peter-Synth-Drums-Arranging-production-mastering
Steve-Keys-Synth-artwork
Z-Lyrics-Bass-2nd guitar-2nd-vocal
Dace- Vocals-lead guitar

Name FOS....Not spelled out Z. (FOS)


BBL
DACE>

Well we seem to be getting a plan together but there are still things that need to be clarified first.

As we are doing a vocal track it is important to know where the vocals will come in and how long the track is going to be.

Once I know the bpm and length I could start a drum track but to lay down synth parts is not possible until you know where the vocals and guitars are as you need to work around them.
Also you obviously cannot do synths until you know which key to record in.

Steve seems very quiet......I am guessing that he may be somewhat confused by this.

I still think the best way to start is for z to write the lyrics and that will determine a framework.

Once z knows where the vocals are going he can do a simple drum track to enable him to lay down a bassline and then do some guitar chords as suggested.

DACE can put these together in ACID so that the simple drum track can be removed or muted when I get to it.

DACE then needs to add his guitar parts and vocals and if z is doing some backing vocals add those too.

DACE needs to then send me the ACID zip file and to send an rough audio mix to Steve. Or if Steve is happy to receive a copy of the ACID file he could use that to work out his parts by loading it into his copy of ACID Express (it will work because I've tested it).

Steve can then do some synth parts as loops that will fit as long as he knows the key and the bpm. I will fit them into the mix and program a drum track to fit the song and add some more synths or maybe space type noises from the synth if we are doing a space rock track.

Once I have all of the parts compiled I can then work my mixing and mastering magic on the whole thing to make a final track.

As long as I have all the parts in place I can always then go back and remix it if anyone thinks that something needs changing.
That way everbody will get some input into the final mix.

If you agree then the starting point will be with Z and then Dace. I can pick up the bpm and length from ACID and should be able to work out the key.

How does that sound?

"Quote"
Steve seems very quiet......I am guessing that he may be somewhat confused by this.

You got that right Peter!!! LOL Actually I've only just sat down at my PC and read through this thread! By the time I get home from work and eat it's usually around 7:45 before I can get to my PC. You guys have a head start on me!!

I do agree that the lyrics should be done first. Gives us an idea on what the song structure will be.

Thanks Steve.....that seems to make sense to me.

Perhaps I should point out that I don't usually work with vocal tracks.....all of mine being instrumentals......but basically I would treat the vocals as a lead instrument so the rest gets built around it in my view.

That sounds good everyone.
Let me take a crack or two at the lyrics and post them here....


Work is kind of exploding at the moment, so it might be a couple days...


Z

I've only ever used vocals once, in my song Dryads. Just a sample, but like you Peter I treated it as a lead instrument.

z wrote:
That sounds good everyone.
Let me take a crack or two at the lyrics and post them here....


Work is kind of exploding at the moment, so it might be a couple days...


Z

Sounds good Z..........hope DACE is OK with this too.

Looking forward to it

Yes, im understanding better what peter is saying now. Good plan.

I have 2 ways to save projects, and tested them both. I THINK. you need (Project with external audio) ?? this gives you all the tracks in a folder and the ACID file...Zip it of course.

The other is Project with embedded audio///this would not even open up for me???

ONE IMPORTANT THING on the vocals. I have found that after a few days of listening to a vocal recording, i can sing it WAY better...So it might take a week to get my take better. But im getting it down better, So. i figg it out.

Z got started on the lyric. they are cool...


DACE>

WE HAVE THE LYRICS!!!!

Z did SO great! Knew he would, he's a writer..

I might have to adjust them some while recording?? but there perfect.

DACE>