Net Labels

More interesting stuff....

http://disruptiveplatypus.wordpress.com/netlabels/


Z

I dont "get" the site Z...What the hell is it???

DACE>

DACE wrote:I dont "get" the site Z...What the hell is it???

DACE>

It's a big list of "Net Labels"

Not real useful to us (for selling our stuff) since most of the Net Labels just have CDs for free download,
but I thought it was interesting that there are so many of them (and I never heard of them before).

The link goes to a site that just has a list of all the Net Labels Sites they know about....

Z

Looks like a lot but really this is just a drop in the ocean as these are all electronic artists only.

Whats it all about???..........Well these are all people giving their music away free but with a Creative Commons license.

If you are not interested in selling (DACE .....you did say that was not too important to you in your recent post) then it may interest you.
Its a way of giving your music freely but retaining your copyright. Its a bit complicated though as there are six different licenses depending on what you will allow.

Basically you can licence it just for free personal use and sharing unaltered or there are other options where you allow people to use it commercially (like in a video) or even to remix it and even do whatever they want to it.
They do have to give you credit though so people know that you were the original source.

Here is the page that fully explains the licenses:

http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses/

A lot of people on Soundcloud use these licenses I have noticed.

Hope that makes it clearer.

There are whole sites out there where you can find this music and acappellas where they encourage people to remix or collab and if you are looking to do this it could be interesting.......not for me though !!!!

A useful link Z! A lot of free music to listen to
I use Creative Commons on some of my artworks especially my yearly contributions to the Digital Fringe festaval in Melbourne Austrailia (been asked to do this festaval for 3 years running now) I keep the original copywrite but I can allow the fringe to use my images however THEY want, or however I want, or somewhare inbetween

Thanks for clearing it up.

You have to give some away before will start selling it.
And i have been doing just that.
But im giving it away to people that will pass it alone, and that know me.

Anubis Spires gave there first album away free, and now they have sold 1000s!!!
Its STILL there best selling album.

My music is personal to ME. Theres NO amount of money that would over-ride that!

I would rather (MAKE) music under contract for money. That way its for money and not personal.

"Money" cant buy my music! The love of it can "OWN" it!

One of the things im gona start doing on my own is giving my music away to those that love it. No cover-art, package, just a CD burned by ME, mailed by ME, to the ones that love my music. THEY will get it to sell for me in time, by there LOVE of it!!!

AFR is setting there ready...PROMOING is in ORDER! to the "right" people tho. Theres a BIG diff in how, and who you give your music to, opposed to just giving it away to anyone. But that must be offered in some way also.

When the day comes that someone I know hears your Album you GAVE me, and BUYS it from you, you will start to have faith in this thinking. Until then, just HOT AIR!, from me.

When that day comes you will also see that (friends) are very much key to our music selling. We need each others support, or NOTHING will happen for ANY of us.

ALOT of the "selling" points of what i have (for sale) comes from support of my (friends) Artwork, Mastering, Feedback, Websites, Ect. And my music is all over the world because of my friends, as yours is Peter. As Nigels, Steves, Zs, Ect...

All i need is to PROVE to my friends that we CAN help each other SELL music!
I try'n pretty fucking hard to do that.
Im pretty stressed its not happening yet.
Online is not the right way, but its all we seem to have right now.
I AM getting music out to the world. ON and OFF line.

Look at my posts, my replys...there about what I can do, We can do, not about stuff that wont help us any.

Now in NOT downing you and Z for your postings....Its shows your looking for stuff, but it nothing that will help us. WE will make it happen..There NO MAGIC SITE out there thats gona tell us how to make things happen. WE ARE that site.

Its OUR ideas, OUR thoughts, OUR way, as a group that will change things for all of us.
I NEVER could get ANYONE to understand this! Or to DO this. maybe you guys have understood me in the past, but did we DO anything???

Peter...your GREAT with the online searching! You have
brought in some cool sitesin the past. (for years) even at the Anubes. So im not downing you at all. Your try'n as hard as i am i think.
Soundcloud has been helpful for us here and on FB for me. And you are SO important to the group here.

Please dont anyone take my ramblings personal.

Really, im just bored!

DACE>

DACE....The only time I take anything personal is when I know that I'm under attack !!!!! So no worries there

I understand what you are saying....and what you are working at. Hope it works for you......but it never worked for me. I told you before .....and its true....I have managed to actually sell more of my tracks than I have been able to give away free.
Whenever I have offered a free DL I usually get no takers.....particularly on sites like Soundclick and Mixposure.

But I sell tracks and sometimes whole albums.....in small quantities. Thats why I am working on more selling and promo online. I have no other options anyway as I am not a live musician and I'm stuck in the house most of the time caring for my mother.

So I guess that because you are good at networking it might well work for you ....and I hope it does.

I have to follow a different path and do what works for me.

I am looking at a couple of other sites at the moment which look promising and if I think that they can help I will post links here....but whether you use them or not is your choice. Whats right for me may not be right for you.

I am sticking with Mixposure as well for now.....but I am not convinced yet that it will be useful to me except for catching up with a few other peoples music.

Glad to see that you are still posting here DACE

Well, this is one thing im saying here...Us by our self wont do much of anything.
If people cant team-up and work together with each other, not much happens.
What works for (me) could help (you)..What works for (you) could help (me).

Many a great person have stated without the help of others, they would not have got where the did.

What would it hurt for you to link your Album to AFR?
What would it hurt for (you) to setup a site for FOS music. Selling tracks, and linking that to AFR, and AFR to your site. And we could ALL do blogs and post to everything.
(you putting our links on your site helps us and you) And thanks for that Peter.
I have posted on you on facebook.

I just dont think ANY of us will ever do it by ourself.

HOW can we work together, and link our music together as one unit?

We all have our little "ways"....We should pull together as ONE!
We have a GREAT artist in steve. We can promot him, and him us.
We have a great label setup with AFR, and you could do a FOS label for tracks-and albums.

I trust everyone here. I have NO prob truning over my work to you guys.
I hope im trusted also.
Matter of FACT! I would get MORE out of selling my friends music for them than mine.
As i would get more out of them being able to sell mine.
Its just how i am.

What (I) have with Steve doing my art, Z helping mastering and AFR, ect, means the WORLD to me. I would NOT be near as proud of my work if i did it all myself, and it would NOT be as good of work either.

Anyway....Think about this mindset some.
(The reason IM posting is, because YOU guys are)! Enuff said.
DACE>

DACE.....Thats a lot of questions you're asking there !
Lets have a look and see what my thoughts are:

What would it hurt for you to link your Album to AFR?
Looking at how AFR is set up (correct me if I am wrong) you are mainly selling CD's through the Kunaki store but promoting them through the AFR website.
Since I informed you about Routenote you are also now entering them into the digital market also but primarily AFR is about selling physical CD's. I do not want to do that and I don't want to use Kunaki.
I have tried selling Cd's through CD baby but digital works much better for me and I don't want to get tied up doing CD's.....if I did then I can produce good quality printed CDR's myself but I find that too time consuming and not very profitable.
I will probably move away from CD Baby now that I have found Routenote and all of my work will be Digital Downloads only.
Basically the AFR model does not fit what I want to do....but it works great for you guys and I have no problems helping you to promote it and supporting you in any way that I can.

What would it hurt for (you) to setup a site for FOS music. Selling tracks, and linking that to AFR, and AFR to your site. And we could ALL do blogs and post to everything.
I suggested this some time ago but nobody seemed interested at the time. My experience of setting up websites has taught me many things but one of the most important is that getting visitors to the site is the biggest problem. Getting people to actually buy anything from that type of site is even harder. That is why I have concentrated more on finding out where the potential buyers are rather than trying to get them to my sites. My own sites are only there to expand information and allow people to hear my music once they have found it.

A better answer is to use a site that is already set up for artists to sell from ......but not sites like Mixposure and Soundclick which are the old model who are more based around reviews.Those sites are just no good for selling music as the main traffic there is other artists.They are really only social networking sites for musicians to network and get reviews......you already know that !!!

So what sites am I talking about? Well I have found two sites that I am looking at but until I have signed up (if I decide to) then I will not give you a link. I don't want to recommend something for sure until I know more myself.

Site 1 is similar to many others until you actually check the features and find that it offers a whole lot more than other sites. Its a site where you can upload and sell your albums / tracks from your artist page......Ok that sounds just like the other sites until you find out some facts.

They have a large fanbase of buyers.....that's what we need.
In the past 30 days artists have been paid out 490K $......There are over 1.1 million tracks from over 140K+ albums on the site from 183 countries worldwide.
On this site albums outsell tracks 4 to 1 while on all other sites tracks outsell albums 16 to 1
To date they have had over 9 million downloads .
You can offer free tracks or albums if you want to and you can sell other merchandise.
You get 85% of the price sent to your Paypal account.
The pages and artwork are very high quality.

That should be enough to get you interested but I have yet to go further and try it myself so when I know more I will keep you informed.

Site 2 is a different approach and it does involve a small fee. It is equally geared up for Indie Labels as well as artists and could be good for AFR.
There is a £10 GBP setup fee and a £10 per year fee per account.
Again this is a download store but there are some unique features here.

You get 95% of the Sales price (less another 8% for royalties ???? not sure how that works)
Here is the unique thing......other artists/ labels can list and sell your albums and you get 65% back and they get 30% (remaining 5% goes to website)
You can also list other artists and get 30% if you sell their albums....so if you find good music on the site or someone likes you then you can both profit.
The music stores look really professional and show up well in Google and other search engines. The company is based in the UK and payments again through Paypal.
Currently they host 1318 Stores with 42,000 tracks for sale and have 16,500 buyers.....not a big operation but good for Indie labels.

None of these sites have Charts, Reviews or Forums......they are set up to sell direct.
They do not distribute elsewhere to i-Tunes or Amazon etc or use barcodes so you can still use Routenote or Kunaki seperately and you do not need to change anything that you have already set up elsewhere.....but you could link them to AFR if you wanted to.
This is something I might consider if I want to start my own Indie Label.....still thinking about this one.

HOW can we work together, and link our music together as one unit?
We all have our little "ways"....We should pull together as ONE!

I'm not sure that we can work as one unit and because we have our own different ways of doing things is really what defines us as Indie artists.....and that's something I'm happy with.
I like to have total control where possible over all aspects of my work....music , production, mastering, artwork, marketing ,promotion and sales.There are things that I could ask others to do.....for example without doubt Steve is much better at artwork than I....but I get satisfaction from doing it myself and gaining from the experience.

Sorry DACE....but that's how I like to work....it doesn't change anything.
I am still quite happy to help in any way that I can here to support any of you or AFR in any way that I can......you only have to ask.

It's not a matter of trust.....if I didn't trust or respect you guys then I would not be posting here. I value your friendship very highly....more than I can say. I post things in here that I would never post elsewhere.........links to sites.....info on how I make my music .....tips on promo and marketing .....this is all stuff that I wouldn't give away to anybody else and it has value whether you choose to use it or not. I could take all of this stuff and write an e-book and sell it.....I have acquired so much information over the years.

So if you want me to do anything for you just let me know....whether its to build a website, talk about music or synths or gear or even to do a collab or a mix or mastering...I'm here and I will help.

Finally regarding posting........I'll keep posting while there is any life here .....so you need to keep posting too .

Phew that took quite a bit of time and effort as I had to think about each of these and look carefully at how this balances out.

DACE .....I hope this helps to answer some of your questions and that its acceptable to you.
It helped me to clarify some of my own thoughts along the way.

Thank you for your toughtful RE Peter.
I understand.

I will post here if there anything to post about.

I agree about the OMDS for sure. MIX is just SAD! everyone posting tunes, no reviews on them. Only the popular people get reviews there..Very sad site as they ALL are!
But nice site to host (MY) music.

Thanks Peter. Your a great friend!



DACE>

DACE (Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:57 pm) wrote:Thank you for your toughtful RE Peter.
I understand.

I will post here if there anything to post about.

I agree about the OMDS for sure. MIX is just SAD! everyone posting tunes, no reviews on them. Only the popular people get reviews there..Very sad site as they ALL are!
But nice site to host (MY) music.

Thanks Peter. Your a great friend!



DACE>

Thanks DACE.....and Thanks for your reviews on Mix. Yes...nothing changes on the OMD's and I believe that they are now outdated and have had their day.
They seem to have lost their way and are without purpose or direction.

There are a lot of talented people still posting on there but there is a massive communication breakdown where the good music doesn't get found unless you are established over there.

Having to pay a subscription has also killed it off. I could only post 5 tracks for Darkstarcruiser as its a new account but my old Global Trancemission account was still open and has 20 audio slots.I will not pay to be on Mixposure.....there is no value there

DACE.......Do either of those sites that I talked about interest you (or anybody else who reads this post) ?

What are your views on this.......I will show you more if I sign up to anything and think it will work.

Being that online is SO dead, and i have so many sites going that are doing nothing right now, im shifting my thoughts to getting this new PC setup going, and getting the gear i want for my studio and live shows.

Recording is something i need not do right now because i have 2 and half albums in the "bag" and just put out 2 new ones. OS, and FUNGUS both. And the fact i have like 3 listeners..lolol...

SO....im online looking at gear prices, new and used.
Heres a list of things i "need" just for myself and to be happy.

1- Bass amp (small 100watt)
2- Small- powered-PA head, 6 ch.
3- Line6 flextone-2 guitar amp. (redface)
4- Cheap Keyboard
5- Mic stands, Mic cords,
6- Get my (IBANEZ) back and the guitars and bass im building done.

I think i can do all this easy with what income-tax money i have left after bills.
If i can get happy with my gear and studio again the recording will start again im sure.
At that point i think i will just share the tunes here useing Soundcloud. and only upload one or two per album on MIX.
Will ask Z to put a free-DL of my albums here only.

I have in mind for (live) to go solo-one-man band. Playing and singing to backtracks.
And useing those gigs to sell albums and get people to AFR.
Also looking into doing some public speaking on solo-recording, and live shows.
Might look for gear companies to do demo-work for there products??

What im doing, LOL, try'n to do now, is NOT working. Online is just SO dead!

Let me re-read and think on the sites you spoke of Peter.
BRB

DACE>

Great info and words Peter and Dace!

I think the key thing I am seeing is: NO MATTER HOW MANY SITES WE ARE ON, NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE GO THERE,
AND OF THOSE THAT DO NOT MANY ARE INTERESTED IN PAYING FOR MUSIC.

I agree with you Peter that: Digital Downloads is probably the way to go (as far as online goes). People want to be able
to buy an album or a song at a time directly to their device (phone, computer, iPod,....)

Here is something to keep in mind: HOW DO PEOPLE FIND MUSIC TO BUY?
I think most BUYERS search on iTunes or google or Amazon to find music to buy. So that's where we need to be.

And I agree with you Dace that: doing the one-man band thing and selling albums there and trying to promo AFR there
will be more effective than posting on web sites where no one is listening anyway.

Z

I dont know ANYONE that likes DLs....Everyone i have talked to wants the REAL CD...But most of my friends are poor and dont have ipods, and fancy shit. They want to play it in there car or at home in there stereo, or at work in the shop.

But i DO feel its true what you guys think about DLs... A CD can be passed around easyer by people. But you have to get them out there first.

BOY! I bet a songs sound SO AWESOME on a phone..lololololol....We thought MP3s were bad..Now there listening on there phones! LOL...How big is the speaker in a phone?????? LOLOLOL....

Personaly, i just want to get some gear in my studio. And go in there and play music. Other than that, whats it gona do for ME? nothing...just get ignored..Like to see them ignore my music IN MY STUDIO!..lololololol.....I just look forward to getting MY things going for ME...And look forward to Z coming to visit, TOM coming for awhile to play, and getting back with Mike and OS giging some, and have Danny come play once and a while..SIMPLE!
I have a place to setup AFR to sell on the weekends. And HERE to share recordings i might do.
After all, when it comes down to it, ITS ALL ABOUT ME! As it is with EVERYONE!
Sharing comes second, and is a gift. I know who to share with..
Im going out in MY studio...See you later on tonight.
DACE>

DACE wrote:I dont know ANYONE that likes DLs....Everyone i have talked to wants the REAL CD...But most of my friends are poor and dont have ipods, and fancy shit. They want to play it in there car or at home in there stereo, or at work in the shop.

But i DO feel its true what you guys think about DLs... A CD can be passed around easyer by people. But you have to get them out there first.

BOY! I bet a songs sound SO AWESOME on a phone..lololololol....We thought MP3s were bad..Now there listening on there phones! LOL...How big is the speaker in a phone?????? LOLOLOL....

Personaly, i just want to get some gear in my studio. And go in there and play music. Other than that, whats it gona do for ME? nothing...just get ignored..Like to see them ignore my music IN MY STUDIO!..lololololol.....I just look forward to getting MY things going for ME...And look forward to Z coming to visit, TOM coming for awhile to play, and getting back with Mike and OS giging some, and have Danny come play once and a while..SIMPLE!
I have a place to setup AFR to sell on the weekends. And HERE to share recordings i might do.
After all, when it comes down to it, ITS ALL ABOUT ME! As it is with EVERYONE!
Sharing comes second, and is a gift. I know who to share with..
Im going out in MY studio...See you later on tonight.
DACE>

Most people who listen on their phones use earbuds or headphones -- not the tiny speaker.
So it doesn't sound that bad.

The short story is: digital sales are rising while physical CD sales are falling
http://www.pollstar.com/blogs/news/archive/2010/01/07/704350.aspx

which doesn't mean you can't sell physical CDs. It just means more and more people are buying digital downloads.

Your plan sounds good Dace!

Z

z wrote:
Great info and words Peter and Dace!

I think the key thing I am seeing is: NO MATTER HOW MANY SITES WE ARE ON, NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE GO THERE,
AND OF THOSE THAT DO NOT MANY ARE INTERESTED IN PAYING FOR MUSIC.

I agree with you Peter that: Digital Downloads is probably the way to go (as far as online goes). People want to be able
to buy an album or a song at a time directly to their device (phone, computer, iPod,....)

Here is something to keep in mind: HOW DO PEOPLE FIND MUSIC TO BUY?
I think most BUYERS search on iTunes or google or Amazon to find music to buy. So that's where we need to be.

And I agree with you Dace that: doing the one-man band thing and selling albums there and trying to promo AFR there
will be more effective than posting on web sites where no one is listening anyway.

Z

Z and DACE......I need to repeat the figures I gave on Site 1 as they tell you some facts that contradict the statement NO MATTER HOW MANY SITES WE ARE ON, NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE GO THERE,
AND OF THOSE THAT DO NOT MANY ARE INTERESTED IN PAYING FOR MUSIC.

They have a large fanbase of buyers.....that's what we need.
In the past 30 days artists have been paid out 490K $......There are over 1.1 million tracks from over 140K+ albums on the site from 183 countries worldwide.
On this site albums outsell tracks 4 to 1 while on all other sites tracks outsell albums 16 to 1
To date they have had over 9 million downloads .

Does that read like a site where not many people go and with no buyers......I think not !!!!!

Well I will find out because I am going to try it out......nothing ventured...nothing gained !!!!!

If it works then in due course I will tell you where to find it.

Here is something to keep in mind: HOW DO PEOPLE FIND MUSIC TO BUY?
I think most BUYERS search on iTunes or google or Amazon to find music to buy. So that's where we need to be.

Lots of people do although I have found that i-Tunes is by far the most productive.
However there are newer ways of getting your music noticed that lots of people are using. Spotify and WE7 are both sites that stream whole music tracks with ads in between that pay for the site.
While WE7 is only linked to mainstream recording companies Spotify is now part of the distribution deal for Indies and your Routenote tracks will end up getting plays on there . Both of my first two Global Trancemission albums are on Spotify through CD baby and they get hundreds of plays. People then start to look in Google for your name and it leads them to your sites if you have them set up right. Its all about getting noticed ....Right !!!!

BOY! I bet a songs sound SO AWESOME on a phone..lololololol....We thought MP3s were bad..Now there listening on there phones! LOL...How big is the speaker in a phone?????? LOLOLOL....


Something I forgot to mention on Site 1:

You have to Upload your files in lossless format.....that is WAV or FLAC or AIFF files in CD quality.
Reason is because they will encode them into whatever the customer wants to buy.....whether thats a WAV or an MP3 in 128k or up to 320k the customer can choose from lots of formats....and they get your artwork too.

This site has some really unique features like that.....they stream the full track in 128k format so people can listen to your whole album but buy it in a better quality.

DACE....if people can't be bothered to spend a few cents/ pence on a blank Cd and burn it from there themselves then they are either too lazy or will never buy the album anyway.

Like I said also ......you can do free downloads if thats what you want.

There is nothing for you to pay.......they take a percentage from any sales and you will get 85% paid into your Paypal account.....and thats a very good deal.

Just to be clear here......the way that you want to promote and handle your music DACE by playing live and selling CD's or giving some away.....that's fine.....these are also proven methods and they will work for you I'm sure. I do not have that option and I am interested in anything online that looks as if it offers new opportunities.

I have deliberately not named the site in question because I will roadtest it myself.

I am good at finding these things.....Soundcloud is cool....and Routenote will get you onto i-Tunes and Amazon and sites like Spotify without you parting with any money. These sites are quite well hidden.....I bet most of the artists on Mix and Soundclick will never find out how to do any of this. If they did the sites like Routenote would not be able to cope with the numbers and we would have to wait months to get our tracks out......so be very selective about who you tell.

It sounds good Peter..

DACE>